PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/USEnet Vol. 3/USEnet 3.100

Text File | 1988-04-08 | 28.0 KB | 711 lines | [TEXT/ttxt]

 5-Dec-87 15:03:44-PST,29348;000000000001
Date: Sat 5 Dec 87 13:57:18-GMT
From: Jeff Shulman <SHULMAN@SDR>
Subject: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #100

Usenet Mac Digest     Saturday, December 5, 1987    Volume 3 : Issue 100

Today's Topics:
     MacWrite to Word Conversion Problems
     Re: Any Linkers which take arb. length names?
     List manager, etc.
     Re: Apple File Exchange Mac-to-DOS ?? Does it work?
     512K/PLUS Mac power/video board changes?
     What does 'ShutDown' do to Third Party SCSIs?
     Re: Mac Lab information
     tape drive question
     Hypercard: what's it really worth? (2 messages)
     Re: tape drive question
     Re: Hypercard: what's it really worth?
     Clipboard and MultiFinder
     Does Thunderscan work on a Mac II?
     Re: What to do when your HD disappears
     MultiFinder Memory
     Re: Mac Lab information
     Re: List manager, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter Steele)
Subject: MacWrite to Word Conversion Problems
Date: 27 Nov 87 20:08:27 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Acadia Univ., Nova Scotia

We are having difficulty reading MacWrite documents with MS Word. The
MacWrite documents were created with MacLink Plus copied from a PC as
WordStar files. MacWrite can read the files without problems, but Word
says it encounters problems (unspecified) and that it will ignore part
of the file (which it does). We can find no consistent behaviour with
what it is ignoring, and we have been able to read other MacWrite
documents without difficulty--we've only experienced problems with these
MacLink Plus created files. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what
might be the problem? Thanks.

--
Peter Steele Acadia Univ. Wolfville NS Canada B0P1X0 [phone]x121
UUCP:{uunet|watmath|utai|garfield}dalcs!aucs!Peter BITNET:Peter@Acadia


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stew Rubenstein)
Subject: Re: Any Linkers which take arb. length names?
Date: 28 Nov 87 03:11:17 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab Harvard, Cambridge, MA

1) Apple has stated that they will be shipping C++ and porting MacApp to
C++ shortly (I am not certain, but I think they said 1Q '88).  It is
possible that the 31 character name restriction wll be lifted then. MPW
3.0 is expected about the same time.

2) The object file format is documented in the MPW 2.0 manual, available
from APDA.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with Apple, don't speak for Apple, and
the above is only my best recollection of a rumor I heard somewhere.
--
Stew Rubenstein
Cambridge Scientific Computing, Inc.
UUCPnet:    seismo!harvard!rubenstein            CompuServe: 76525,421
Internet:   [e-mail]       MCIMail:    CSC


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sho Kuwamoto)
Subject: List manager, etc.
Date: 27 Nov 87 21:34:46 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

I want to implement a very simple spreadsheet like window for purposes
of data entry.  What I mean by very simple is the following:

   1) Cells can only hold numbers
   2) The user should be able to click in a cell and get an insertion
      caret, and be able to use TextEdit like things (shift for
      selection, etc.) as well as type.
   3) The user should somehow be able to select a range of cells.

I thought perhaps the List Manager would come in handy, but after
reading it over, I somehow don't think so.  It seems very difficult to
provide a mechanism to let the user edit the contents of a cell in
intuitive way. (or at all)

I know this may sound ridiculous, but what would be the overhead in
opening up a TextEdit record for each cell?  In my case, that would come
out to about 600 records maximum.

I also thought about having only one TextEdit record, but moving it
around to whichever cell was being modified, and putting the right
characters in it.  This seems inelegant.

I would rather not write this all from scratch, but if it is necessary,
I would appreciate any tips you may have to give.

-Sho


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Andrew C.Esh)
Subject: Re: Apple File Exchange Mac-to-DOS ?? Does it work?
Date: 28 Nov 87 06:29:27 GMT
Organization: EMS/McGraw-Hill, Eden Pairie, MN

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bruce Cheney)
writes:
>Has anyone used the Apple File Exchange utility to read &
>write 3.5 " disks in the format acceptable to the IBM PS/2 series
>using the Mac's internal disk drive ?

    The only Non-Mac disks you can read with the Mac internal drive is 3.5"
ProDOS disks from the Apple II Unidisks.  PS/2's are a different density
or something.  Apple provides Mac <-> MS-DOS transfers using the
PCDrive, a 5.25" drive that Apple makes which connects to the Mac and
reads Messy-DOS disks.
    I'm sure some smart young Egr. will figure a way to get the Mac drive
to read the PS/2's.  The format can't be THAT far off.
                    - Andrew
>
>thanks

    Sure.
>
>brucec (Bruce Cheney  Tektronix/TriQuint Semi.  Beaverton, OR)
--
Andrew C. Esh        DOMAIN: [e-mail]     APPLELINK: D0492
EMS/McGraw-Hill      UUCP: ihnp4!meccts!ems!andrew      AT&T: [phone]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter Espen)
Subject: 512K/PLUS Mac power/video board changes?
Date: 27 Nov 87 18:37:27 GMT


    Have there been any changes in the 512K/PLUS Mac power/video boards
over the years by Apple, or is the SE the the first Mac to have a
new/changed power/video board re-design?
    epsen@well


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter Espen)
Subject: What does 'ShutDown' do to Third Party SCSIs?
Date: 28 Nov 87 00:14:42 GMT


    Does the ShutDown command under the 'Special' MenuBar item in Finder
6.0 set the R/W heads on third party SCSI disks to save areas for
power-down and moving?
    What exactly does this command do?

    espen@well


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter Steele)
Subject: Re: Mac Lab information
Date: 28 Nov 87 12:37:21 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Acadia Univ., Nova Scotia

We don't have a setup quite up to your standards (12 SE's with an SE
server) but I'll pass on some brief thoughts. First of all, you should
really look at the server software MacJANET. It was designed by the
University of Waterloo in Canada and of the network software we looked
at, it was the best. One thing good about it is that it was developed
with the hostile student environment in mind and handles security
extremely well. The next release will also allow you to restict the
number of users who can simultaneously run a particular program. This is
good for packages that don't have a network licence but you instead have
to buy x copies if you have x stations. This way, you can buy fewer
packages if you think the demand for that package will not be enough to
warrent a copy for every node in the network. Really, you have to look
at this server software. Contact cmd@watcsg on BITNET. This gives you
the author of MacJANET and he can give you current pricing and version
info, and whatever else you need.

We are using PhoneNet and have found it very flexible and exellent
value. We don't run all the exact software that you have, but we do use
Word and SuperPaint. We also have Reflex, Statview, MacWrite, Works,
CricketGraph, and so others. They all work without a hitch. We don't
have HyperCard on the network and probably won't put it on for a while.
The way the security works means that the software must reside on a
read-only drive and HyperCard doesn't seem to like read-only drives. Of
course, we could put it on a public read/write drive, but then students
could copy it. This isn't allowed by HyperCard's licence agreement.

Performance is exceptable, but with only 12 stations that's not
surprising.

We have two IW II's and a LaserWriter Plus. The IW II's work fine; the
earlier IW II's (like mine) have terrible paper jamming problems, but
the newer ones have been redesigned and jamming doesn't seem to occur
anymore (but give the students time to figure how to do it :-) ). The
LaserWriter is not in the lab but housed in the Computer Centre.
Students pay 15 cents a page for laser output, the IW II output is free.

There is another university here that has a lab of 30 Pluses and an SE
server with 2.5 Megs of memory (as does our server). They've  increased
network throughput by adding special caching software in each of the
stations on the network. This reduces the amount of memory for
applications (they're using 400k for the cache), but it seems to be
working very well. They are also using MacJANET and are very satisfied
with it. (They started out with HyperNet but found it was not suitable).

Neither of us feel that either Tops or Appleshare are suitable for
student networks. They're more suited for small office networks.

Hope this is helpful.

--
Peter Steele Acadia Univ. Wolfville NS Canada B0P1X0 [phone]x121
UUCP:{uunet|watmath|utai|garfield}dalcs!aucs!Peter BITNET:Peter@Acadia


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ted Johnson)
Subject: tape drive question
Date: 25 Nov 87 21:44:49 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard  DTC


What is a "streaming tape drive"?  What other kinds of tape drives are
there?

-Ted


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ron Morgan)
Subject: Hypercard: what's it really worth?
Date: 29 Nov 87 07:43:04 GMT
Organization: Speech Communication UT Austin


>From ut-ngp!osmigo Sun Nov 29 01:02:09 CST 1987
Article 10218 of comp.sys.mac: Path: ut-ngp!osmigo
>From: [e-mail] (Ron Morgan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: Re: MacUser Hypercard coverage
(now Hypercard user interface) Message-ID: <[e-mail]> Date: 29
Nov 87 06:58:42 GMT References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (CP^ZAZPPPYPYXU    zQYhBYPYoZO) Organization:
Speech Communication UT Austin Lines: 54

I have the following comments, mostly negative, to make about Hypercard,
for what it's worth.

1. I agree with the MacUser author that it's being foisted upon the
market
   without passing the litmus test of retail competition. One can only
   speculate how far Hypercard would get if it were quietly slipped onto
   retail shelves for $295.00.

2. Its consumption of bytes is horrifying, both in the RAM and on the
disk.
   A full-blown, heavy-duty Hyperperson (what a concept, eh?) would need
at
   least 2 megs of RAM and a 20 meg hard disk just to stay alive. I
resent
   the way this kind of thing is vogue these days, and find it hard to
   believe that it's not being done deliberately, to stimulate sales of
   higher-capacity systems, as well as to arbitrarily define the market
in
   ways of questionable benefit to the consumers, e.g., Hypercard making
   DA's obsolete within a year or two.

3. Hypertalk is somewhat overrated. True, it's "easier" than C or
Pascal, but
   in no sense of the word is it a "programming language" in the first
place.
   MacUser/World often tend to glamorize new software with lots of
tinsel-
   and-glitter foofooraw. You may recall the front-cover spotlighting of
   MacSpin, yet how many people are using it? Just a couple of months
ago,
   right on the front cover: "Visual Interactive Programming: The Wave
of the
   Future." Those guys have had more "waves of the future" than Jeanne
Dixon.
   I'll change my mind when somebody writes a flight simulator in
Hypertalk.

   Furthermore, I doubt that the "ease" of learning/using Hypertalk (and
it's
   no mean feat to do so, relying solely on the HELP card or the manual,
   neither of which addresses the subject in depth) will be that big an
   advantage for the business user. Most professional businessmen I know
   are far, far too busy to learn a language and twiddle away their time
   writing "button programs." They just want to go click-click and get
   their Cash Flow Indexes.

   That is, if they COULD learn it. I've known a number of business
computer
   consultants to laugh with me over lunch, chortling about how they
charged
   some high-priced executive $25 an hour for teaching him how to drag
an icon.

4. In my opinion, Hypercard's most salient innovation is its way of
getting
   around, but even that's not special. Just click on a box for the next
   subject. It's not all that different from the Guidance DA on
Pagemaker 2.0.
   It's been suggested that Hypercard is really here to pervade the
market in
   preparation for the introduction of CD's, for which it would be
ideally
   suited. However, in presenting Hypercard as a magical, omnipotent,
do-
   everything application that will replace everything but the kitchen
sink,
   Apple may be setting an otherwise "nice" application up for failure.
No
   Hypercard application is going to even come close to surpassing its
stand-
   alone software equivalent, and what with Finder-substitute DA's such
as
   DiskTools II and DiskTop that let you flick from one application to
the
   next in seconds, I wonder if Atkinson, having blown 3 precious years
on
   this monstrosity, is trying to become the Steve Jobs of programming.

Ron Morgan

"Who are you?"

"We're computerists."

"AAAUUGGGHHH!!!"

--
UUCP: {ihnp4,allegra,ut-sally}!ut-ngp!osmigo
      [e-mail]
ARPA: [e-mail]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Fry)
Subject: Re: Hypercard: what's it really worth?
Date: 29 Nov 87 09:37:59 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Morgan) writes:
>
>I have the following comments, mostly negative, to make about Hypercard,
>for what it's worth.
>
>1. I agree with the MacUser author that it's being foisted upon the market
    I think HyperCard would sell quite well for $295.  It is totally unlike
any other application and it might take awhile for the market to figure
out exactly what it's good for, but that's why it's so wonderful of
Apple to practically give it away.  People can experiment with it and
make it into a standard, avoiding a chicken-and-the-egg syndrome while
people wait for proof of why they should buy it.

>2. Its consumption of bytes is horrifying, both in the RAM and on the disk.
    I agree that a 20MB hard drive is very useful for HC, but I think a
20MB hard drive is very useful for just about anything useful on a
computer.  They are cheap enough now that a lot of people are getting
them.  But this 2MB of RAM is pretty much nonsense.  I use HC in a 750K
partition under MultiFinder and I've never encountered a problem.  Why
do people think HC needs so much memory?
    HC files certainly are large, but it's basically a case of "you get
what you pay for."

>3. Hypertalk is somewhat overrated. True, it's "easier" than C or Pascal, but
    Exactly what sense of the word (sic) "programming language" are
thinking about?  HyperTalk is descended from a respected, high level
language (SmallTalk) that is very easy to program in.  If it's not a
programming language, what do you think it is?

>   MacUser/World often tend to glamorize new software with lots of tinsel-
    I certainly agree that the magazines will jump on any bandwagon that
comes along, but that's their job :-).  Back to HyperTalk, you won't see
a flight simulator in HyperTalk because it is interpreted and it doesn't
allow easy access to the hardware.  No one ever said you could write a
flight simulator in HyperTalk, nor can you write one in Basic but it's
still userful.
    This morning I made some simple changes to the Address stack that comes
with HyperCard and now I have a stack that stores my students names,
addresses, phone numbers, and grades for all the assignments.  Lastly,
clicking on a button draws a simple scatter chart to determine the bell
curve for assigning letter grades.  This took about 45 minutes to set
up.  That's why people like HyperCard.

>   Furthermore, I doubt that the "ease" of learning/using Hypertalk (and it's
    You can't please all the people all the time.  For those who can't drag
icons I have no answer.  For those that don't want to buy an extra book
to help with HyperTalk, I suggest that they part with the bucks; you'll
like it.  For those who are too busy to write "button programs,"  I've
never met anyone too busy to make their system more efficient.  Keep in
mind, though, that HyperCard is not meant to replace Excel, which is
perfect for Cash Flow Indices.

>4. In my opinion, Hypercard's most salient innovation is its way of getting
    HC is not meant to be a Finder-substitute, so what does this have to do
with anything?  And what do you mean by the remark "Steve Jobs of
programming?"  I think that would be a wonderful compliment for just
about anyone, but programmers of Atkinson's level need no compliments.
His monstrosity is not perfect, but it is the first example of what will
(hopefully) be a large part of future computing.  All people need to do
is recognize its limitations.
    Frankly, your comments make me wonder if you've even used HyperCard.
--
David Fry                [e-mail]
Department of Mathematics        [e-mail]
Harvard University            ...!harvard!huma1!fry
Cambridge, MA  02138



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: tape drive question
Date: 29 Nov 87 15:05:48 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Inst. (NY, NY)

    Tape drives come in two basic flavors; streaming and start-stop.  Data
is written on a tape in blocks, with gaps between them.  In an
start-stop drive, the CPU prepares a block of data to be written (or a
buffer for data to be read) and nudges the tape controller.  The
controller starts the tape, and when it is up to speed, starts writing
(or reading) the data one byte at a time.  When it's done with the
block, it stops the tape and tells the CPU it's ready for the next
command.  The inter-block gaps give the tape time (and room) to stop and
then get up to speed again for the next block.

    The problem is, the tape spends a lot of time starting and stopping. To
fix is to keep the tape moving (i.e. streaming) between blocks.  You
start the same way; the CPU prepares the data buffer and tells the tape
controller to go at it.  The controller starts the tape moving, does the
read/write, and tells the CPU it's ready but keeps the tape moving,
depending on the CPU to have the next buffer ready by the time the gap
is past the head.  If the CPU can keep up, you save a lot of time (not
to mention wear and tear on the drive and the tape itself).  If the CPU
can't keep up, the controller has to stop the tape and wait for the next
command; unfortunately, by the time it realizes this, the tape has gone
too far and the controller has to reverse it to get back into the gap.
I don't have the specs in front of me, but I think the maximum gap for
1600 bpi tape is 3/4"; if your tape moves at 25ips (fairly slow) you zip
through a gap in 30 ms.  You mileage will vary for other densities and
formats.

    A reposition takes much longer than a normal start-stop cycle and is
the bugaboo of all streaming tape drives; if you can keep it streaming,
you win vs. start-stop, but if you can't, you loose big.  Most (all?)
streamers have a start-stop mode to fall back to.  My TU-80 (horrible
beast) has three modes:  100 or 25 ips streaming, and 25 ips start-stop.
 With an RA-81 (another horrible beast) on a Vax-11/750, and the
standard utilities, there is no way you can keep the tape streaming and
unfortunately, the decision to switch modes is made in the controller;
it keeps trying to stream, blows a gap, repositions, falls back to
start-stop, and then decides to take another try at streaming.  With Don
Speck's multi-process triple-buffered dump, we can get it to stream at
25 ips pretty reliably, but the stupid controller keeps trying to attemp
100 ips, and fails.

    I hope that answers your question.
--
Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy
System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (bill coderre)
Subject: Re: Hypercard: what's it really worth?
Date: 29 Nov 87 17:28:32 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Lab, Cambridge MA


WHOAH!

Chill just a sec.

1. Ignore giant hype. (primary rule of media)

2. Bitmap graphics in HC are COMPRESSED average 15-30x. Atkinson
patenting data compression. that good.

3. No "Secret Plans", No "foisting". ok? If you want this kind of
environment: ultra graphics, "friendly" (but quite limited) programming,
links, etc, it DOES TAKE that much memory. Sorry. Code is quite
optimized (I've seen it).

4. Atkinson wrote HC and forced Apple to distribute -- no "secret plans"
to make people buy memory, disks.

5. HC not a replace everything environment. You -- you -- can now frotz
your data in new ways you never could unless seasoned programmer. It
might be very very slow for tricky stuff. That's drawback. But you -- mr
user -- can now do newer things, beyond what programmer coded. Ever use
Cricket Graph? Only 12 kinds of graphs. yours not there, too bad. now
you CAN do it, with hc. ok?

Best part is you can buy or get free expansion code -- XCMD, or just
stackware -- and add it on no prob to get new features.

No one will force you to buy anything new. But if you want the
super-premium HC environment, it does require hd and a meg or two.
Sorry. No other choice.

6. HC has bugs, limitations, that are being fixed. Some really horrible.
But they will be fixed. OK?

Now please: no conspiracy. No.

Sorry for druggy writing, i broke my hand, taking percodan, typing with
one finger.................................................bc


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Bill Lipa)
Subject: Clipboard and MultiFinder
Date: 30 Nov 87 04:15:19 GMT

I am writing an application which, among other things, puts a picture
into the clipboard. It works fine except when under MultiFinder, when
nothing appears in the clipboard at all. Is there some simple reason for
this behavior? I can't believe it's a memory problem because the
partition should be more than enough. I am following the procedure
recommended in Inside Macintosh.
--
Bill Lipa
-------


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Marty Lee)
Subject: Does Thunderscan work on a Mac II?
Date: 30 Nov 87 00:31:35 GMT
Organization: Rick's Home-Grown UNIX; Portland, OR.


I've been working with a Thunderscan with the optional Powerport on a
Mac + and a Mac SE.  Things seem to work OK and all the application
software works.  But on a Mac II there is no external flopply disk
connector to take  power off to run the scanner.  Does anybody know if
the manufacture of Thunderscan has an adapter for the Mac II?

By the way the Thunderscan software works fine on the Mac II. Its alot
faster on the II so image manipulation is not slow like it is on the
Plus or SE.

Also if there are any products similar to the Thunderscan for the  Mac
II drop me some email.

Thanks,

--
tektronix!reed!omen!bucket!martyl  (Marty Lee)


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ed Tecot)
Subject: Re: What to do when your HD disappears
Date: 30 Nov 87 04:22:21 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, USA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Creech) writes:
>I want to *why* it is that some of the Mac II's are losing their SCSI drivers
>several times a week.  This not what we are paid five grand for!
>
>Does Apple have an *answer* to this problem?

Here is my assessment: When an application crashes, it may end up
executing random memory.  We have determined that a particular trap,
SetOSDefault, has a high probability of being executed when an
application goes astray.  This trap will cause your startup disk to
attempt to boot from a different (nonexeistent) partition. The fix is to
reset your parameter RAM, as far as I know, the SCSI driver is not
touched.  We have a fix for this problem (although it would be nice if
applications didn't have these bugs).

To determine if you are hitting this, the next time your hard disk
refuses to boot, boot off of a floppy, and open the control panel with
command-option-shift depressed to reset the parameter RAM.  Then attempt
to reboot.  If this fails, tell me.  If this succeeds, post the
programs, DAs, INITs, etc. that you use, so that we have some hope of
finding the culprit.

                        _emt


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Raymond Lau)
Subject: MultiFinder Memory
Date: 29 Nov 87 22:15:56 GMT
Organization: The Big Electric Cat


Now, I have a rather simple task...but it seems impossible for a
non-Apple person to do given the scarcity of information regarding MF's
internal structures available.

What I want to do is have something similar to the Finder (6.0)'s about
box available as an application or DA.  Having the Finder running isn't
always desirable, but it's the only thing to do while you're trying to
figure out the "perfect" #s for the SIZE resource.

The question is, stated simply, How do I do it?

More specificly, how do I tell how much total memor exists in the
system, how much is allotted to what application, how much is free in
ea. application's heap and how much is available that's unused (which I
guess would be the MFFreeMem value.)

OK, can someone over there in Cupertino or someone close to there
provide some answers?  It would be most appreciated.

--
Raymond Lau                      {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\
Big Electric Cat Public Unix           {bellcore,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!raylau
New York, NY, USA                               {sun}!hoptoad/

GEnie:RayLau       Delphi:RaymondLau     CIS:76174,2617
"Take it and StuffIt."

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mac Lab information
Date: 29 Nov 87 22:01:09 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Here at the University of Notre Dame, I am a student monitor for a
Macintosh Lab with: 11 Mac SE's, 11 Mac 512's & Plus's (I'm not exactly
sure how many of each), a Mac II doing file and printer serving, 1
Imagewriter I and two LaserWriter Plus's.  We use AppleServe and
AppleShare.  We use PhoneNet, and the same network serves the entire
building (the lab plus about 5 more II's and maybe 7 more Plus's and
SE's.)  The lab is open 24 hours a day, and there are consultantants on
duty 8AM - 10PM weekdays.  During other hours our mainframe operations
staff is available to feed the LaserWriters paper and toner cartridges,
etc.  We are extremely happy with Appleshare, especially after an
experience with a Corvus network.  Each of the Macs has its own account,
which gives that Mac access to a private folder with its own copy of
MacWrite.  Other software is available to all the Macs, with more than
one copy for some popular single-user software.

If you run a similar lab, or would like to talk with us at all, please
send mail to me at [e-mail] and we'll be glad to help.
--
Tim Dierks
President, MADMACS User Group
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (the absurdist)
Subject: Re: List manager, etc.
Date: 30 Nov 87 18:02:29 GMT
Organization: UW-Madison Academic Computer Center

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sho
Kuwamoto) writes:
>I thought perhaps the List Manager would come in handy, but after
>reading it over, I somehow don't think so.  It seems very difficult to
>provide a mechanism to let the user edit the contents of a cell in
>intuitive way. (or at all)

The answer is, don't edit on the cell itself, edit in an edit box. The
two most popular spreadsheets in the world (123 and Excel) are both
implemented in this way, although neither uses the List Manager. When
they double click on a cell, COPY the contents to a textEdit record
displayed above the spreadsheet;  let them edit there, then either
replace the cell with the edited cell or cancel (replacing the contents
of one cell with a new value is quite easy in the List Manager).  This
has the advantage from the "intuitive" standpoint that it is clear they
are working on a copy;  the original is still there on the list where
they can see it, think about it, and compare it to the new version.

The list manager can do a LOT;  developing a replacement for it would be
a substantial enough investment of time that you'd probably lose
functionality in other branches of your program.

--
Rick Keir -- all the oysters have moved away -- UWisc - Madison
"Watch the skies...."

------------------------------

End of Usenet Mac Digest
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